The Jains were prepared ...

the way of ahimsa; Digambara and Svetambara
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The Jains were prepared ...

Post by DNS »

Cross posting this from DWE, since it's appropriate to this forum.
jains.jpg
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https://dharmawheel.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=5267
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Re: The Jains were prepared ...

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My response:

Ha! That's right!

The Jains were prepared 3,000 years ago!

The Jains were also vegetarians before it was cool.
The Jains also believed in plant consciousness before it was cool.
The Jains (like other Dharmic religions) were anti-war before it was cool.

https://dharmawheel.org/viewtopic.php?f ... 267#p14063
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Re: The Jains were prepared ...

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Forgot to add:

The Jains were also into minimalism (one of their 5 precepts), before it was cool. Some are so much into minimalism, they don't even own or wear clothes. :o (Digambara monks)
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Re: The Jains were prepared ...

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The Jains were also the first to discuss the existence of microorganisms.
The possible existence of microorganisms was discussed for many centuries before their discovery in the 17th century. By the fifth century BC, the Jains of present-day India postulated the existence of tiny organisms called nigodas.[3] These nigodas are said to be born in clusters; they live everywhere, including the bodies of plants, animals, and people; and their life lasts only for fraction of a second.[4] According to the Jain leader Mahavira, the humans destroy these nigodas on a massive scale, when they eat, breathe, sit, and move.[3] Many modern Jains assert that Mahavira's teachings presage the existence of microorganisms as discovered by modern science.[5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microorganism
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Re: The Jains were prepared ...

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Jainism, a 3,000 year old religion, also had a female founder at one time, according to their texts. Malinatha was a previous Tirthankara (similar to Samma-Sam-Buddha, re-discoverer of the Dharma), making it female egalitarian, before it was cool or "woke."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C4%81ll%C4%ABn%C4%81tha
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Re: The Jains were prepared ...

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In summary, Jainism, a 3,000 year old religion was well ahead of it's time, making the following principles or discoveries.

1. Wearing masks is good for preventing death to small living things and protecting oneself from bacteria and viruses.
2. Vegetarian diets required, before it was cool or found to be helpful to the environment, one's health, etc.
3. Ahimsa (nonviolence) including anti-war before it was cool.
4. Minimalism, so one has less attachments, simplified life, one of the main precepts of Jainism before it was cool.
5. Microorganisms are real life forms, first discussed by Mahavira over 2,000 years before modern scientists discovered it.
6. Women can attain the highest level of the religion, that of a tirthankara (similar to a Buddha), egalitarianism before it was cool.
7. Jainism says that plants have consciousness and a soul. Modern research is suggesting there may be some sentience and consciousness in plants.
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Re: The Jains were prepared ...

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Maybe the Jains were so cool that the modern world just forgot, modern civilization chasing the shadow of false material advancement that corrupted mankind and this planet. We still have so many "scientists" that argue animals aren't intelligent, even when they can clearly speak with learned sign language to communicate with us dumbos. Let alone psychic communication that builds an equality among all Souls. But look at most human beings on this planet, what is our merit? What is intelligence? A mouse wouldn't even build a mouse trap and yet parts of humanity are armed to the teeth. If you want to find the true Jains, look into the animal kingdom, look at true intelligence, look at Love, there are so many beings who live in perfect harmony with nature, or pick a tree or gaze at a flower, those are the Jains by nature. Some humans are so puffed up that they can think higher thoughts and that the trees supposedly can't, yet the trees are the ones making our oxygen, helping us live, and they are not machines that people built by stealing from the Earth. Jain civilization is perfect. Live in one place, meditate, be harmless, and have perfect morality at all times. It is the perfection of Buddhism, and a complementary light to it, both reflect eachother and I believe Lord Mahavira is as prevalent in Buddhism as Guatama Buddha is in Jainism, as I see the Dharma fully present in Jainism, and where the Dharma is there is the Buddha in refuge of it, and the principles of Ahimsa and Nirvana, as well as Awakening are fully present in Buddhism, so why would Lord Mahavira not help steward the Sangha? I believe Buddha and Mahavira are both equally Jains and Buddhists, accepting their wonderful paths towards finally saving everyone as the all-in-all for what can be done for this world, and though there will always be more for both paths, if we all work together Spiritually, both Buddhism and Jainism will grow more powerful, counteracting the negative effects of Kali-Yuga.
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Re: The Jains were prepared ...

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7. Jainism says that plants have consciousness and a soul. Modern research is suggesting there may be some sentience and consciousness in plants.
Wondering why they were vegetarian then...
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Re: The Jains were prepared ...

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split_light wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:07 pm
7. Jainism says that plants have consciousness and a soul. Modern research is suggesting there may be some sentience and consciousness in plants.
Wondering why they were vegetarian then...
You gotta eat something. According to the Jains, the plants have consciousness, but still a lower life form compared to those with more faculties, more senses or aggregates.
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Re: The Jains were prepared ...

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split_light wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:07 pm
7. Jainism says that plants have consciousness and a soul. Modern research is suggesting there may be some sentience and consciousness in plants.
Wondering why they were vegetarian then...
The Jains have a very sufficient vegetarian code, see here:
Specific Rules In general Jains are pretty strict about adherence, but some of the rules regarding plants (one sensed beings) and no overnight storage are not tightly adhered to by laity today. Monks and nuns are expected to follow all strictures with great accuracy. This section is an overview of important points but for more detail (and more rules) refer to Jain Web sites (1, 2).

• Night Meals are forbidden because of the many creatures that come out at night and which may be accidentally killed due to poor lighting or attraction to fire.
• Freshness: Food must be prepared fresh daily. Keeping cooked food overnight is forbidden. Ground spices have an expiry of 3 days during rain, 5 days in summer and 7 days in winter.
• Vegetarianism: Traditionally Jains have been lacto-vegetarians, but modern dairy farming methods, particularly what happens to the male calves (the veal market) has caused many to pursue a vegan diet, eating no animal products.
• Water is filtered through three layers of cotton cloth before use for cooking or drinking. Water should boiled and cooled before drinking to avoid illness caused by micro-organisms. Illness is thought to engender intolerance.
• Root Vegetables: (potatoes, carrots, turnips) are forbidden because uprooting a plant kills it (non-violence) and because many tiny creatures may inhabit roots.
• Beansprouts are prohibited because they are living and eating them kills the whole plant.
• Cereal Grains are permitted.
• Fruits: Most are permitted but fruits that bleed milky sap when cut, Jackfruit, for instance, are forbidden. Many Jains avoid fruits that have a red meat-like appearance (tomatoes, watermelon).
• Vegetable Greens are considered marginal because plucking them involves pain to the plant. Most Jains consider greens acceptable but cabbages and other greens where the whole top is cut and the plant thus killed are forbidden.
• Mushrooms, Fungus and Yeasts are forbidden because they are parasites, grow in non-hygienic environments and may harbor other life forms.
• Honey is forbidden as the excrement of bees (actually they barf it up).
• Eggs are forbidden as progeny of five-sensed beings.
• Cheese and Yogurt are permissible (for non vegan Jains) but must be freshly prepared on the day they are eaten and no animal rennet may be used to make them. Vegetable and Microbial rennet is acceptable but in strict practice only acid coagulated fresh cheese will fit the same day rule. The previous day's yogurt may not be use as a starter the next day.
• Vinegar is forbidden, it's a product of fermentation (yeast to alcohol then bacterial to vinegar).
• Alcohol is forbidden because it may destroy the power of discrimination, create delusions and result in ill health. Also alcoholic beverages are considered non-vegetarian because of FDA allowed additives, some of which are of animal origin.
• Onions, Garlic, Scallions, Chives and Leeks fall under the category of "roots" the pulling of which kills the whole plant so they are forbidden.
• Silver Foils common in India as decoration on sweets are banned because the foils are pounded out between layers of bull intestine and are therefor not vegetarian

Links
This list does not include all sources used to prepare this page but it but those listed are particularly informative.

1 - General Information - www.jainworld.com.
2 - Dietary Code of Practice Amongst Jains - Toronto Vegetarian Association.
-Source.
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Re: The Jains were prepared ...

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DNS wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:12 pm
split_light wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:07 pm
7. Jainism says that plants have consciousness and a soul. Modern research is suggesting there may be some sentience and consciousness in plants.
Wondering why they were vegetarian then...
You gotta eat something. According to the Jains, the plants have consciousness, but still a lower life form compared to those with more faculties, more senses or aggregates.
I have a firm belief that all life is capable of the same intelligence. Because intelligence is measured by only Love. There is a large framework on Earth set up to protect both the ignorant and innocent in a way in which it is propounded that because someone is a smaller size or lesser in physical stature they aren't capable of the same intelligence as a firmly resolved and physically strong homosapian sapian, but actually cognitive capacity in certain Species such as worms seeming to be lowly is just a defence mechanism. At one point in time for example, Lord Mahavira may have psychically communicated with their Souls, opened up their past life consciousness, and in that part of the world they may form a relationship with the clouds and the rain, allowing for the proper weather to embetter their lives as well as that of the plants, for safekeeping. Our Souls are what manifest our forms based on our intentions in interacting with the world, and respond accordingly, but the capacity for Love and intelligence of any Soul is infinite, and the mind is contained within the Soul. That is why Buddhists focus so much on the mind when they don't talk of the Soul. Our bodies manifest forms in many sorts of ways to interact and respond to the outside world, but everything in this world is a type of flesh, however immaculate or however mundane, even the Soul is flesh, but it is also Spirit and indestructible, and located where it can not be obstructed or materially altered. The flesh of our bodies can manifest any proper form, so as an advanced Mystic you could easily take the form of an ant if that was your cent percent intention, or the shape of air, or pure Spirit, and it would still be flesh, always and forever. The Soul is a type of flesh that is not cleavable or able to be cut or withered or moistened, and our bodies, like thought, are an emanation of that Soul and may be subject to material adversities because of the illusiory potency's thankless task of fighting this world's pain and suffering, as fallen nature's of certain beings degrade the world. There is solace in the fact that we are not being harmed in our Souls or Transcendental bodies, but only the body made of illusion is experiencing a conjunctual manifestation of pain or suffering. The idea of the Transcendental Soul is similar to that of the Buddhist notion of being in Nirvana while Eminating into this world in a body made of meditation. So if we happen to respect the Souls of all living beings like the Jains do and cause no harm, eating only vegetables and other harmless vegetarian food, the pain will lessen for the flesh of the consciousness of this world, and even though pain is a product of illusion, it stings because it is the product of knowing someone is commiting a grave sin. We must imagine like the Jains do how much pain the cows and enslaved animals go through in the concentration camps of the slaughterhouses, and all the pain sensitive animals, and turn to a diet of proper vegetarianism, consuming the flesh of plants while respecting their needs in every possible way. The less one hurts others, the more Spiritually Advanced they will become, and one will become, and making great Spiritual Progress they will come to the Highest Levels of Spiritual Realization, the ones the Jains are fully after. To become God, like Lord Mahavira fully is believed to be by faithful and advanced Jain Practitioners.
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Re: The Jains were prepared ...

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Brahma Das wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:41 pm The Jains have a very sufficient vegetarian code, see here:
Good list, shows what they believe as acceptable or not in their diet.

In general, they try to avoid killing the whole plant, but try to eat just the things that are 'parts' of the plant, something that can be harvested without killing the plant.

Technically, eating a fruit is not killing or harming the plant (the fruit tree) as it's actually producing the fruit so that it can reproduce.
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Re: The Jains were prepared ...

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Plants are just one-sensed, whereas, humans and other large animals are 6 sensed (5 senses + the mind).

Image

Some non-vegetarians argue that if killing plants is bad, then you might as well eat meat. But as the Jains show in the above picture, there is a huge difference in consciousness, sense of pain and suffering as you go from one-sensed to six-sensed beings.
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Re: The Jains were prepared ...

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Fascinating info. I wonder: Do the Buddhists have a justification for eating plant life without restriction, and for eating meat? I'm talking about something that specifically addresses Jainism's teachings.
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Re: The Jains were prepared ...

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split_light wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:57 am Fascinating info. I wonder: Do the Buddhists have a justification for eating plant life without restriction, and for eating meat? I'm talking about something that specifically addresses Jainism's teachings.
According to Buddhism, rebirth does not take place in the Plant Kingdom, just the Animal Kingdom and higher (humans, animals, devas, hell beings). So Buddhists have no reservations about eating any plant, root vegetable, mushrooms, etc.

Most Buddhists eat meat, but there is a sizable percentage that are vegetarian and vegan (perhaps around 50% for convert Buddhists and around 10% to 20% for those born into Buddhism).

Most Buddhists justify meat eating based on the Threefold Rule, however, that rule is for monks and nuns. For laypeople, the Buddha was mostly vague, thus, the endless debates on Buddhist forums about vegetarianism.
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Re: The Jains were prepared ...

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According to Buddhism, rebirth does not take place in the Plant Kingdom, just the Animal Kingdom and higher (humans, animals, devas, hell beings). So Buddhists have no reservations about eating any plant, root vegetable, mushrooms, etc.
So, the relevant principle is whether the being will undergo rebirth or not, in Buddhism.
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Re: The Jains were prepared ...

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DNS wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:51 pm
Most Buddhists justify meat eating based on the Threefold Rule, however, that rule is for monks and nuns. For laypeople, the Buddha was mostly vague, thus, the endless debates on Buddhist forums about vegetarianism.
Only in Theravada, in Mahayana Buddha was explicit in suggesting vegetarianism. Here is one example. Among the 48 minor precepts given by Buddha in the Brahmā Net Sutra is this one:
Do Not Eat Meat

My disciples, you should not intentionally eat meat. The consumption
of meat is entirely unacceptable, as doing so will cut you off from the
seed-lineage of great compassion. Whenever sentient beings see you
they will avoid you. Therefore, bodhisattvas cannot eat the flesh of
sentient beings. To eat meat is to invite countless sins. Eating meat
constitutes a minor transgression of the precepts.
Here is part of a long passage from the Lankavatara Sutra:
In the Elephant’s Girth [Sūtra], in the Great Cloud,
In the Nirvana [Sūtra] and the Āṅgulimālika [Sūtra]
And in the Sūtra on Entering Laṅka,
I [Buddha] have forbidden meat.
It is forbidden by Buddhas,
By bodhisattvas, and by Disciples;
Those who shamelessly eat [meat]
Are always born insane.
But those who give up eating meat
Are born among Brahmins
Or in families of spiritual practitioners,
Both intelligent and wealthy.
Those who have seen, heard, or suspected
Should give up meat completely.
May all seek, find and follow the Path of Buddhas.
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Re: The Jains were prepared ...

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That's right, there are some very overtly vegetarian passages in Mahayana, including the Nirvana Sutra and Lankavatara Sutra. However, not all Mahayana traditions accept those. The Chan traditions of Buddhism appears to be the most accepting of vegetarianism of all the Buddhist schools.
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